Exploring AI in Art: Unveiling Dream Logic and Tech Ethics

This summary was composed by an artificial intelligence and may be full of issues and miscomprehensions. But, I’m just one guy here so every little thing helps.

In this engaging video, we dive into the intersections of art, technology, and AI through a fascinating discussion led by various experts. The session begins with an informal conversation around experiences traveling in Japan, contrasting the cultural nuances between Tokyo and other Asian cities. The focal point then shifts to AI and its role in creativity, featuring a detailed presentation by Andrew Korf, who explores the concept of horizon scanning and early warning systems for data analysis. This sets the stage for Kirby Ferguson to present ‘Dream Logic,’ a side project crafted in collaboration with Karin Fuhrie, blending personal reflections and AI-generated visuals. The conversation evolves into a lively and insightful debate about the challenges and aesthetics of AI-generated content, its ethical implications, and the future of creativity. Tune in for a thought-provoking exploration of how AI is reshaping our creative landscapes.

00:00 Introduction and Greetings

02:07 First Impressions of Japan

04:23 Andrew’s Presentation Begins

06:06 Introducing the Horizon Scanning Project

08:18 The Concept of Horizon Scanning

12:02 Prototyping and Development

16:41 Discussion and Feedback

35:48 Next Presentation: Kirby Ferguson

36:39 Introduction to Everything is a Remix

37:30 Collaboration and Evolution of the Project

38:56 Challenges and Detours in Production

40:12 Exploring AI in Art and Design

40:21 Showcasing the First Episode

41:24 Reflections on AI and Creativity

50:08 Technical Challenges with AI Tools

01:00:45 Aesthetic and Ethical Considerations

01:12:15 AI’s Limitations in Design

01:12:44 Adobe’s Potential in AI Integration

01:13:14 Kirby’s Video Storyboarding Approach

01:14:15 Mateos on AI and Age Demographics

01:15:01 Political and Ethical Concerns with AI

01:21:56 Sebastian’s Critique on AI in Advertising

01:24:17 AI’s Impact on Creative Professions

01:33:33 Engineers as Artists: A Debate

01:39:22 AI and Energy Consumption

01:45:54 Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions

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Chat Transcript

00:02:17  Sean Park (he/him):  A bit horizontal today.  Hope it’s not COVID!
00:02:44  Julian Bleecker:  Reacted to "A bit horizontal tod..." with 🦷
00:02:52  Dré Labre:  Hi, I’m transcribing this call with my Tactiq AI Extension: https://tactiq.io/r/transcribing
00:03:27  Julian Bleecker:  Hey @andrewkorf — you ready to share?
00:09:34  Camille MacRae:  sound ut out
00:10:10  Dré Labre:  Siri-ously!
00:10:24  Julian Bleecker:  Reacted to "Siri-ously!" with 🤦‍♂️
00:15:44  Nina Gregg:  Gotta track the coyotes in Bernal! 😂
00:17:41  Christine Prefontaine:  I’d love to test this!
00:19:17  Sean Park (he/him):  Bateson’s “difference that makes a difference” making some intentional introduction of noise and randomness into the system that doesn’t fit the frame of perception
00:19:50  Sean Park (he/him):  Add a dial to turn up or turn down the weirdness
00:21:39  Camille MacRae:  how much user side control exists? can I select to include/ eliminate certain data sources?
00:22:04  Idorule:  https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/single-pane-of-glass
00:22:33  Julian Bleecker:  I love the idea of a speech to image thing-a-ma-bob, like Whisper -> StableDiffusion, if you follow, so live images based on what is being yapped about.
00:22:45  Christine Prefontaine:  Reacted to "I love the idea of a..." with ❤️
00:22:59  Julian Bleecker:  (I always thought the book was pronounced as if one were saying “I adore you”)
00:23:22  Peter Caravella:  Reacted to "I love the idea of a..." with 💯
00:23:46  Phillip Reay:  ive wanted that for since google image came on scene.. scan schat for keywords and supplement w salient images
00:24:27  Sean Park (he/him):  Add Jester/Fool/Shaman/Clown/ZenTeacher mode to point out the absurdity of your aims and what you think you know
00:24:38  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham..." with 🧡
00:24:44  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham..." with ❤️
00:24:56  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "I love the idea of a..." with 🧡
00:25:07  Peter Caravella:  Reacted to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham..." with 👍
00:26:15  Sabrina Sullivan:  That is where I am going a bit Sean, but personas who help you get a more holistic view of the topics you have. We were building concepts around voices / people / lived experiences that were different than yours for an investment council to help identify opportunities early, but also as part of the “due diligence” process. Maybe the pane of class is more about opening up the blinds, or expanding the perspective (grounded in what sort of perspective might be blinding or limiting you to be resilient)
00:26:58  Sean Park (he/him):  Reacted to "That is where I am g..." with ❤️
00:28:16  Marc B:  One of the things we’ve found useful when working on designing corporate internal retrieval systems is to think about “entry points” rather than “personal dashboards”
00:28:24  Julian Bleecker:  Reacted to "That is where I am g..." with ❤️
00:28:27  Julian Bleecker:  Reacted to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham..." with ❤️
00:30:10  Sean Park (he/him):  Replying to "That is where I am g..."

Cool.  Working on a Gregory Bateson kind of bot that brings his ecological wisdom to looking at conversations through the resurrection of his archive.  Met with Sandro from this group who is working on a Marshal McLuhan bot and we had Gregory and Marshal bots have a talk about our questions - ridiculous conversations emerged
00:31:03  Marc B:  Reacted to "Cool.  Working on a ..." with 👍
00:31:06  Anna Scott:  Replying to "That is where I am g..."

Has me thinking about specified AI agents uploading specific sources to something like NoteBook LLM, then querying the host AI about horizon points, and finally producing the interactive podcast at the end.
00:31:25  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "Cool.  Working on a ..." with 👍🏾
00:31:41  Sean Park (he/him):  Reacted to "Has me thinking abou..." with 🔥
00:32:41  Camille MacRae:  more slick == more lazy
00:33:35  Brandel Zachernuk:  Reacted to "more slick == more l..." with 🔥
00:34:00  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "more slick == more l..." with 🔥
00:34:29  Peter Caravella:  Reacted to "more slick == more l..." with 🍒
00:34:31  Nina Gregg:  Reacted to "more slick == more l..." with 🔥
00:34:34  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "That is where I am g..." with ❤️
00:34:40  Idorule:  Replying to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham..."

Acknowledging the unknowable may increase wonder and interest, in the way (human) chess was greatly improved by masters presenting chess engines chess positions (prompting) and learning from the advice — even when they couldn’t fully understand the why
00:34:47  Dré Labre:  Reacted to "more slick == more..." with 🩴
00:34:53  Marc B:  What would happen if the SPoG was representative of two (or more) adversarial entities…
00:36:42  Phillip Reay:  Reacted to "Add Jester/Fool/Sham…" with 🧡
00:37:11  Julian Bleecker:  https://karinfyhrie.com/
00:37:33  Camille MacRae:  the 'scenius' > from recent metalabel newsletter
00:37:33  Phillip Reay:  Replying to "What would happen if…"
i make "roundTables" of experts that siftbstuff for me.. they do get adversarial depending on how you config the experts
00:38:05  Julian Bleecker:  https://youtu.be/eIP5bc-It8E?si=W9fLIjtpbNqYtUS1
00:38:32  Nina Gregg:  Reacted to "https://karinfyhrie...." with 👏🏼
00:40:39  Nina Gregg:  I’ve seen the videos - they’re incredible Kirby!!!
00:40:43  Nina Gregg:  Reacted to "https://youtu.be/eIP..." with 💯
00:40:53  Mateusz Pozar:  Reacted to "more slick == more l..." with 👍
00:41:04  Kirby:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIP5bc-It8E
00:41:40  Idorule:  This video really touched a nerve
00:41:47  Nina Gregg:  Reacted to "This video really to..." with 💯
00:42:18  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "https://youtu.be/eIP..." with 💯
00:42:51  Marc B:  Reacted to "https://youtu.be/eIP..." with 💯
00:43:44  Nina Gregg:  Love the vocab you’re building: whiff of AI 👏🏼 / slop
00:44:34  Idorule:  Replying to "more slick == more l..."

Chilly Gonzales in his Pop Masterclass talks about how Daft Punk reused the chords from “around the world” in “get lucky”, and supposed the audience might think that’s lazy. But he discusses the “ostinato” in music, a motif or phrase that persistently repeats in the same musical voice, frequently in the same pitch.

I wonder if we humans need to find our pitch, embrace its bounds (the unknowable), and thrive in finding new meaning within it.
00:44:41  Phillip Reay:  sweet!
00:45:08  Peter Caravella:  Reacted to "Love the vocab you’r..." with 💯
00:45:09  Christine Prefontaine:  I LOVE THIS
00:45:17  Prineeth Ramachandra:  really well done!
00:45:20  Sean Park (he/him):  Encore!
00:45:20  Sabrina Sullivan:  BOOM!
00:45:54  Anna Scott:  That was deeply resonant
00:47:02  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "I’d love to test thi..." with 👍
00:47:07  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "Gotta track the coyo..." with 😂
00:47:18  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "Hi, I’m transcribing..." with 👍
00:47:28  andrewkorf:  Replying to "Hi, I’m transcribing..."

Can you share the transcript?
00:47:43  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "how much user side c..." with 👍
00:48:21  andrewkorf:  Replying to "how much user side c..."

You would choose the sources 🙂 from a pool - we’re starting with https://newscatcherapi.com/
00:49:06  Julian Bleecker:  Replying to "Hi, I’m transcribing..."

I also have a tape. Are you okay if I share that? I should’ve asked ahead of time.
00:49:09  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  I felt seen in that video! her worries are my worries. I really appreciate the "whiff of AI" statement, the way AI looks like a bad rendering rubs me the wrong way every time! It seems like AI is only really good at making noise.
00:49:21  Marc B:  Reacted to "I felt seen in that ..." with 👍
00:49:39  Camille MacRae:  Replying to "more slick == more l..."

I think that's just style - maintaining a consistent style / sound is more for recognition than being lazy imo. It doesn't read as slick to me
00:51:00  Idorule:  I always publish generated images as-is, warts and all, intentionally
00:51:02  Marc B:  We talk here about missing the “six finger days”
00:51:02  Camille MacRae:  It depends on the tools imo. but to use the tools you need to understand them deeply. and that requires study
00:51:17  Dré Labre:  Reacted to "It depends on the ..." with 👍
00:51:31  Dré Labre:  stupid in, stupid out
00:51:33  Nina Gregg:  Reacted to "We talk here about m..." with 💯
00:51:37  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "stupid in, stupid ou..." with ➕
00:52:30  Camille MacRae:  Reacted to "stupid in, stupid ou..." with ➕
00:53:15  Idorule:  Replying to "more slick == more l..."

Slick Rick said “And don't be boring please not lazy
My jam's packed so let's get crazy”
00:53:29  Steve Mc:  Reacted to "It depends on the to..." with 👍
00:54:06  Steve Mc:  Reacted to "stupid in, stupid ou..." with ➕
00:56:10  Sean Park (he/him):  On the point about whiff of AI, some reflections in education that connect to art making: “the cultural panic around AI, especially in education, reveals not the danger of AI itself, but the fragility—and deep violence—of the humanist assumptions that education has long relied on. AI appears monstrous because it threatens the boundaries that humanism works to secure: mind and body, human and nonhuman, learner and tool. But if we attend closely to the logic of the monster in literary and philosophical traditions, we see that the monster is rarely the true villain. Monster narratives expose the horror of human prejudice—our inability to confront difference, revise our assumptions, or reimagine the human itself. The question, then, is not whether AI is a monster, but what our reaction to it says about the assumptions we are unwilling to let go.” - Owen Matson
00:56:24  Sean Park (he/him):  https://intralation-culture-theory-posthuman-pedagogy.ghost.io/is-ai-the-first-true-monster-in-human-history/
00:56:32  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  This reminds me of 3D modeling in Rhino, and getting an impossible surface from a surface sweep, they are so elaborate and beautiful that I have a folder in my files called Error Art
00:56:38  Idorule:  I think we need to work within the unworkable. Where what we can change is limited, we can be vigorous with it — we poke and prod and mold and stretch the canvas with AI — we don’t control what “gets put on the page” but we can mold it, with touches and guesses. Maybe we should look at AI-generated art as sculpture (qua modeling?)
00:57:27  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "This reminds me of 3..." with 🧡
00:57:32  Christine Prefontaine:  Reacted to "This reminds me of 3..." with 🧡
00:57:33  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "https://intralation-..." with 👍🏾
00:57:39  Steve Mc:  Reacted to "This reminds me of 3..." with 🧡
00:58:05  Marc B:  Reacted to "https://intralation-..." with 👍
00:58:18  Anna Scott:  Replying to "I think we need to w..."

interesting
00:58:38  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "https://intralation-..." with 👍
00:58:56  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "This reminds me of 3..." with 🧡
00:58:57  Phillip Reay:  its a tough skin artist callous to ignore those protests..
00:59:46  Idorule:  I have a Movado. They are foolish.
01:00:01  Anna Scott:  Chicago Transit Authority relic
01:01:05  Idorule:  Replying to "its a tough skin art..."

I’m hoping that’s a brilliant pun
01:01:17  Mateusz Pozar:  Replying to "On the point about w..."

But we know what makes AI monstrous – it’s driven by VC money that strips all human creation to streamline value extraction.

“The Whiff of AI Aesthetics” poses the questions well – but basically: Is this ethical, and what does it mean if I use it (regardless of the ethics).
01:01:28  Phillip Reay:  .
so the role of artist is to cram the new thru the overton window..
01:02:38  Idorule:  Every time I hear “uncanny valley” I think of the Green Giant. No cap.
01:03:50  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  Reacted to ".
so the role of art..." with 😂
01:04:17  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "I’ve seen the videos..." with 👏
01:04:38  Idorule:  🧠 Maniacal Spaghetti 🍝
“Unhinged. Unexpected. Unforgettably good.”
Ingredients:
1 lb spaghetti (al dente or die)
3 cloves garlic, smashed and unrepentant
1 small red chili, sliced thin (or a teaspoon of chili flakes)
1 tbsp gochujang (yes, we’re crossing cuisines)
2 tbsp olive oil
1/2 cup vodka (for the sauce, not for you — yet)
3/4 cup heavy cream
1/2 cup grated Parmesan or Pecorino
2 tbsp capers, drained (briny chaos)
1/4 cup kimchi, chopped (fermented madness)
1 handful fresh basil or mint (something green survived)
Optional: crispy shallots, crushed Doritos, or gold leaf — garnish like a maniac
01:04:38  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "I also have a tape. ..." with 👍
01:05:11  Dré Labre:  OH Squircle
01:05:31  Phillip Reay:  theres an odd democratization of aesthetics in the infi-info-sponge aspect of ai.. it doesnt know a great artist is any better than a marginal one.. the ai is equally trained .. so it shows us both..
01:06:03  andrewkorf:  Replying to "Hi, I’m transcribing..."

Cool by me @Julian Bleecker
01:07:13  Sean Park (he/him):  Reacted to "But we know what mak..." with 👍
01:08:53  Idorule:  I’m pissed off that AI took so long
01:16:09  Anna Scott:  And excluding huge swaths of what has come before
01:16:59  Idorule:  I think this is just the IKEA effect. There is a cognitive dissonance between dependence (people are angry at something they are using daily) and resentment (think the world when Gary lost to Deep Blue)
01:17:54  Idorule:  Or, inverted, we undervalue things that aren’t build like we would have*
01:21:38  Mateusz Pozar:  Cremaster
01:23:55  Kirby:  have to leave in a few. what a pleasure to be here! I can be reached here: kirbyferguson@gmail.com
01:24:18  Idorule:  Replying to "Cremaster"

The cremaster muscle is a paired, thin muscle found in males that surrounds the spermatic cord and testicles
01:25:21  Kirby:  thank you for all these comments too! I’m downloading to read.
01:25:41  Marc B:  Reacted to "have to leave in a f..." with 👏
01:25:52  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "have to leave in a f..." with 👏🏾
01:26:07  Christine Prefontaine:  Reacted to "have to leave in a f..." with 👏
01:28:04  andrewkorf:  https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/jul/14/matthew-barney-cremaster-cycle-art-film
01:29:33  Aaron Breetwor:  Gotta drop. Peace peace peace!
01:29:54  andrewkorf:  Ive got to roll as well - thanks everyone.
01:30:03  Camille MacRae:  local beats cloud everytime
01:30:09  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  The only sustainable product you can make is to not make a product at all? kinda thing
01:30:09  andrewkorf:  Reacted to "local beats cloud ev..." with 👏
01:31:03  Nina Gregg:  Have to jump to a meeting, thanks all! 🙂
01:32:27  Idorule:  Turbines are spun by beavers chasing maple candies in very large treadmills
01:32:39  Steve Mc:  Reacted to "Turbines are spun by..." with 😅
01:32:41  Marc B:  Replying to "Turbines are spun by..."

Not many people know that.
01:32:50  Prineeth Ramachandra:  Reacted to "Turbines are spun by..." with ➕
01:33:09  Camille MacRae:  you gotta use heirloom models
01:33:14  Phillip Reay:  Reacted to "you gotta use heirlo…" with ❤️
01:33:20  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "you gotta use heirlo..." with 😆
01:33:22  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  Reacted to "you gotta use heirlo..." with ❤️
01:34:20  Christine Prefontaine:  @Dré Labre I missed that! Good catch
01:34:34  Christine Prefontaine:  I think it was perl
01:34:55  Idorule:  https://www.amazon.com/Hemingway-Wrote-JavaScript-Angus-Croll/dp/1593275854
01:35:19  Camille MacRae:  re: programming poems https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7919364
01:35:26  Marc B:  Replying to "you gotta use heirlo..."

I think we need a t-shirt “I like my models like I like my tomatoes”
01:35:44  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "I think we need a t-..." with 😆
01:35:46  Camille MacRae:  Replying to "re: programming poem..."

My favorite tech poem is Radia Perlman's "Algorhyme". She's the inventor of the spanning tree protocol.
    Algorhyme

        I think that I shall never see
        a graph more lovely than a tree.
        A tree whose crucial property
        is loop-free connectivity.
        A tree that must be sure to span
        so packet can reach every LAN.
        First, the root must be selected.
        By ID, it is elected.
        Least-cost paths from root are traced.
        In the tree, these paths are placed.
        A mesh is made by folks like me,
        then bridges find a spanning tree.

                         Radia Perlman
01:36:50  Idorule:  Reacted to "My favorite tech poe..." with ❤️
01:36:52  Anna Scott:  Reacted to "My favorite tech poe..." with 🧡
01:37:01  Idorule:  Replying to "re: programming poem..."

This is mine:

16-bit Intel 8088 chip
with an Apple Macintosh
you can't run Radio Shack programs
in its disc drive.
nor can a Commodore 64
drive read a file
you have created on an
IBM Personal Computer.
both Kaypro and Osborne computers use
the CP/M operating system
but can't read each other's
handwriting
for they format (write
on) discs in different
ways.
the Tandy 2000 runs MS-DOS but
can't use most programs produced for
the IBM Personal Computer
unless certain
bits and bytes are
altered
but the wind still blows over
Savannah
and in the Spring
the turkey buzzard struts and
flounces before his
hens.
01:37:02  Sean Park (he/him):  My fave nightmare fuel jank video from 2023 - Go Jays Go: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8lnfo5
01:37:07  Idorule:  Replying to "re: programming poem..."

Bukowski
01:37:34  Camille MacRae:  women have more blue cones fwiw
01:37:59  Mateusz Pozar:  Replying to "women have more blue..."

Was it more or an additional kind of cone?
01:38:22  Camille MacRae:  Replying to "women have more blue..."

(the second one)
01:38:40  Phillip Reay:  blue skin is not uncanny!
01:40:04  Idorule:  Replying to "re: programming poem..."

I wrote this one:

I can count on U like TV do
---------------------------

You glow
like a wound
stitched together with satellites

I mute my grief
but your eyes
auto-caption it

Each breath
a rerun
of a show
I never starred in

Still
you stay tuned
through
the signal loss
01:41:07  Camille MacRae:  nuclear
01:41:20  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  Reacted to "nuclear" with 😧
01:41:32  Phillip Reay:  ive seen the IR heat pics of these generators outside the datacenters
01:41:32  Brandel Zachernuk:  Reacted to "nuclear" with ➕
01:41:43  Camille MacRae:  thermal pools
01:42:19  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  Imagine if nuclear bulldozers could move a whole mountain for a dollar. HOW Much damage would we make?
01:42:19  Camille MacRae:  it's difficult bc there are alot of energy contracts which make innovation in energy generation really challenging
01:43:20  Mateusz Pozar:  Replying to "Imagine if nuclear b..."

Well, if they make more than a dollar, it’ll happen.

(“We” needs to be qualified here)
01:43:49  Christine Prefontaine:  I have to jump. Thanks so much, all! <3
01:43:51  Sebastian Campos-Moller:  Replying to "Imagine if nuclear b..."

we = humans
01:44:31  Sean Park (he/him):  Laterz y’all - thanks for the jam
01:44:38  Steve Mc:  Replying to "it's difficult bc th..."

True…indeed….follow the money
01:44:47  Marc B:  Replying to "Laterz y’all - thank..."

Feel better
01:44:54  Sean Park (he/him):  Reacted to "Feel better" with ❤️
01:45:58  Steve Mc:  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4711854-the-machine-stops
01:46:01  Camille MacRae:  nice to see you all ! gotta bounce :)